Francis Again Asserts There is No Hell

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Francis the Annihilator

UPDATE (10:30 CST): The Vatican just issued a denial/non-denial here.

In his fifth interview with the veteran Italian journalist Eugenio Scalfari, Pope Francis allegedly reaffirmed that he is a theological annihilationist: There is no hell. Rather, the souls of those who are not saved will simply cease to exist:

Scalfari: Your Holiness, in our previous meeting, you told me that our species will disappear in a certain moment and that God, still from his creative force, will create new species. You have never spoken to me about the souls who died in sin and will go to hell to suffer it for eternity. You have however spoken to me of good souls, admitted to the contemplation of God. But what about bad souls? Where are they punished? 

Francis: They are not punished, those that repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls.

(Translation, Rorate Caeli, from la Repubblica)

A few hours ago, The Times of London ran with this headline:

Pope Francis ‘abolishes hell’, saying souls of unrepentant sinners will simply disappear

But as Scalfari himself implies, this is not the first time Francis has appeared to put forward this view while "in office." By my count, it is at least the third time. We referenced the first here. OnePeterFive and LifeSiteNews commented more recently on the issue during the last eruption.

Three years ago, many claimed that Francis' alleged annihilationism must have been an invention of Scalfari. But this position has become less and less credible as Francis and the Vatican have declined to deny that this is in fact what Francis believes.

Since the view is a controversial "headline grabber" because it is, among other things, opposed to traditional Catholic doctrine as stated and re-stated for the last 2,000 years including in the current Catechism, it is unclear why no such denial has been made.

Unless, of course, it is what Francis actually believes.

Forgive us if we again state the obvious:

The view that hell does not exist is a heresy as defined by the Church. If Francis holds this view, he is a heretic. That he has appeared to continue to state and re-state the view for at least three years arguably makes him a formal heretic. I say, "arguably" here because he has not as yet been subject to a formal correction on it by a high-level body of, say, Cardinals or bishops within the Church. However, Francis is surely aware that his view is heretical and has obstinately continued to put it forward. Or so it would seem.

And, yes, arguably that means we should add those square quotes to his title.

The title of the interview, published yesterday, is:

“È un onore essere chiamato rivoluzionario”

(It is an honor for me to be called revolutionary.)

Why hasn't the Pope been publicly "called on this" by an official body of cardinals or bishops?

Or by just one cardinal or bishop?

Well, assuming the motivation is not fear - of being, say, summarily kidnapped by the Chinese secret police or the equivalent, or, much worse, losing some spiffy perk or, so much worse, being ostracized by one's peers - then the answer is obvious:

The cardinals and bishops don't care. That Francis is a "heretic" is unimportant. Indeed, we don't speak in those terms anymore.

It's so old pope.

What matters is that Francis cares about people and trees.

Unless they're from China.

But that's unfair. There are still many good priests and bishops, and all have legitimate fear that in the current climate, speaking against, well, the current climate, will put their position and, thus, their flock at risk.

Even good priests who go out of their way to get along are being "removed" - if not by Francis, then by one of his men - if dissident thoughts are detected.

But if the Catholic faith is true, then there is a hell. And some people, including many baptized in the Catholic faith are going there. If the Catholic faith is true, then there's a good chance that Francis, his fellow "revolutionaries," and the myriad small and petty men toadying for favor under them are going there.  

The bad joke (bad for us and for them) is that hell doesn't frighten them. They don't believe in that bullshit, anyway.

The LAST Word on Scalfari

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Loyal son of the New Church

I'm not saying it's the LAST word because I'm so much wiser or whatever, only that I'm tired of the whole thing.

It's now clear that the Eugenio Scalfari interviews in the anticlerical La Repubblica are actually an important part of Bergoglio's controlled demolition of the Church. In the interviews all sorts of heresies are proclaimed, as befits a South American Jesuit who came of age in the late twentieth-century: Indifferentism (proselytism is solemn nonsense), relativism (what really matters is that we all journey towards our own conceptions of the good) annihilationism or universalism (there is no hell), Kasperism (doctrine should bend to practicality) and so on.

Bergoglio knows the message that he believes these things, and thus that they are now quasi-official teachings of the Church, will get out, not because everyone reads Scalfari, but because his words will gradually filter down to the bishops, priests and Catholic masses through secondary articles, headlines and the like. And they will be, as it were, implemented, just as surely as if that kissing priest had written an encyclical for him.

Is Bergoglio worried about opposition? Sure. But telegraphing his thoughts through Scalfari gives him a certain protection. There will always be someone--even the official Vatican spokesman--who will imply (though never actually say) that these are not really Bergoglio's thoughts. Don't trust that atheist journalist spinning his words, etc. etc. This of course is ridiculous, but it gives his potential opponents just enough cover to provide an excuse to mask their own cowardice in doing and saying nothing. And Bergoglio, being an arch-coward himself, knows that most men grapple with that vice.

Doctrine is never officially challenged or denied, but it is undermined just as surely as if Bergoglio had solemnly declared what's what from the throne of St. Peter.

The latest Bergoglio claims, made via Scalfari, favoring communion for the divorced and remarried, are not a "trial balloon". They are, as it were, part of the balloon.

Even Phil Lawler, whom I (amazingly) still respect, is continuing to spout nonsense about the Pope being an incompetent interviewee. Please. Bergoglio knows exactly what he is doing, and has done so since the beginning. How do you think this Jesuit became bishop and then Cardinal?

I can already see the snarky responses: "So, you think it's all an evil conspiracy?!!" (smirk, smirk, smirk, smarmy and leaden Patheos prose, smirk).

Well, I don't know about conspiracy (though It's certainly evil). But it's clearly a strategy.

And, to give credit where credit is due, it's a damn good strategy. Literally.

The only defense for Begoglio now is that he's an utter imbecile. As tempting as that is, I reject it, for the reasons given above. Again, how did he make it this far?

To repeat the claims of the previous post, if you are still going along with this charade, you are aligned with the forces of hell. The clock is ticking for you. It is ticking for us.

Bergoglio must be resisted. And the movement that has buffeted him to the pinnacle of the Church must be fought and defeated. 

Oh yeah, the Muslim hordes are again at the gates of Vienna--abetted by Bergoglio and his allies. There's that too.

Pray for us, Charles Borromeo. 

Pope: There Is No Hell

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He had the right idea

What?!

Oh my God, not again.

What?!!!!!!!!

Did he really say that?

Probably.

It's another piece by Eugenio Scalfari, the atheist journalist, who in a number of "conversations" with Pope Francis, has alleged various Pope whoppers including the now famous, "Proselytism is solemn nonsense." In past cases, ardent Pope defenders have argued that Scalfari is an anti-Catholic propagandist and is not publishing word for word quotes in a formal interview but, rather, later reconstructions of a conversation, and thus there might be as much Scalfari wish fulfillment in some of the statements as actual truth claims.

For the first interview over a year ago, the Vatican website put it up then took it down, supposedly verifying the above point of view. Yet neither the Pope himself, nor Vatican spokesmen have ever denied any of the statements. And of course the Pope continues to have these conversations with his "friend". Many Pope watchers who haven't drunk the One Should Go Through Any Contortion Physically Possible to Defend this Man Kool-Aid, have concluded that this is simply how the Pope chooses to communicate. These are quasi-heretical statements after all (for the above, not even quasi) and thus he has to preserve a certain plausible deniability. It's a clever strategy for planting seeds of doubt about the Faith without blowing it by being too obvious.

Planting seeds of doubt about the Faith? Yes, that's what I just said. If you haven't drunk the Kool-Aid and haven't been living on Mars, that's exactly what this Pope is doing. Well, and I forgot to to add, if you want to be honest with yourself and face up to what's happening, however depressing or shocking that may be.

On to the Scalfari piece. It's an editorial reflection in La Repubblica on what the journalist wants to see happen in the Church, so it's not a new interview, per se. But he includes a part where he describes the Pope's thoughts on the issue. Here is the relevant passage:

[...] Whoever has had the grace to meet Pope Francis knows that the egoism of the most dangerous enemy of our species. The animal is selfish because it is only guided by his instincts, the most important thing is their own survival. Man is also driven by socializing and he therefore feels love towards the other, in addition to the survival of the species to which he belongs. If egoism wins the upper hand and the love for others is suffocated, it darkens the divine spark which is in him and condemns himself. 

What happens to these extinct souls? Will they be punished? And how? 

Francis' answer is unambiguous and clear: There is no penalty but the annihilation of that soul. All others live on to share the the happiness in the presence of the Father. The extinguished souls have no part in this feast, with the death of the body is its end and this is the motivation of the missionary Church: to save the lost. This is also the reason why Francis is through and through, a Jesuit. [...]

This theological view is called Annihilationism, by the way, and it is the view of some sincere Protestant Christians. In fairness, it has some Biblical support (though I think the weight of Biblical evidence is strongly against it.) But it has never been a teaching of the Catholic Church. Indeed, it is a clear heresy. The current Catechism of the Church states:

(1035) The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire." (Matthew 25:41) The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

The Scalfari editorial came out a few days ago, in Italian of course. And as far as I can tell, it hasn't been picked up by many of the Traditionalist blogs, let alone any mainstream sources. We picked it up from The Eponymous Flower through Pew Sitter. Once again, it is vulnerable to the criticism that there's no proof Pope Francis actually said it. And once again, the usual suspects, many of them well-intentioned, will say that caution is urged. We should be careful when inputing heresy (at second-hand, from an atheist) to the Vicar of St. Peter. And so on and so forth, etc. etc.

Enough!

We have a bad one here guys, a real bad one. A Dig Up the Body of Your Papal Predecessor, Put His Corpse On Trial, Convict him and Then Throw It Into The Tiber, honest to goodness Bad Pope.

What to do?

Pray, obviously. But beyond that, I guess I would say, stop defending this man. Stop making excuses. Don't be afraid of the truth. Or rather, I am afraid of the truth, but I'm more afraid of it if it remains hidden. I didn't think we would get someone like this either. But we did.

And it's going to get worse.