Bill Maher and Guests Make Fun of the Holocaust

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"Hey Tucker, you wanna get a couple beers and make up jokes about the Gulag?"

From the October 12th, 2007 episode of HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher:

Bill Maher: The people who are really getting tough in foreign policy are part of the House Foreign Relations Committee...they voted yesterday to once again commemorate the mass murder of six million Jews by the Nazis during World War Two. Mild Applause. This is exactly why the voters gave control to the Democrats: to send a stirring message to Adolph Hitler. 

Huge laughter from audience. 

Tucker Carlson: Unbelievable. To sell out to the Jewish lobby. Now, the Holocaust happened... 

Joy Behar: Yeah. 

Tucker Carlson: ...and it was a terrible thing, and I'm sure in a perfect world we would...take time out to condemn this, but we are doing this at the price of offending some of our key allies, such as various Arab states, factions within the current German leadership and other friends in the War on Terror. 

Joy Behar: And wait until the Duke of Windsor hears about it from his mansion in Bermuda. 

More laughter from audience. 

Tucker Carlson: What do we get out of it...what interest of ours is served by making some of our allies mad? 

Paul Krugman: (Shrugs good naturedly.) 

Bill Maher: Because there are a lot of Jews in, apparently California, and they're a lobby. It's the ultimate in special interest lobbying. 

Joy Behar: The Jews deserve attention, but timing is everything; wait a little while. 

Tucker Carlson: I like the Jews. 

Bill Maher: We all like the Jews. 

Tucker Carlson: This is all pointless... 

Bill Maher: WE ALL LIKE THE JEWS! 

Loud laughter and applause from the audience.

Doesn't this just turn your stomach?

The only problem is, I lied. The above conversation never happened.

Sort of.

Actually this exact conversation really did happen. With one small difference: they were talking about Armenians not Jews. I transcribed the entire conversation virtually word-for-word, but replaced every occurrence of "Armenians" with "Jews". I also changed a few other things to make the references match--like inserting "Adolph Hitler" in place of "The Ottoman Empire". See end of post for the actual transcript.

Please, do not misunderstand. I am not minimizing the Holocaust. If anything, I think the murder of six million Jews should be remembered a hundred times more in our current culture. Even now, seventy years later, when most of the survivors (and perpetrators) are dead. And in a number of ways (though not all), the Holocaust was singular and unique.

But the Armenian Genocide, which while killing fewer people--"only" 1 to 2 million--was one of the great horrors of the twentieth century, and, according to one report, was an inspiration for Hitler's own effort.

It isn't funny.

It shouldn't be a political football.

And politics--"timing is everything"--shouldn't carry one atom of consideration when weighed against the truth.

On this blog we've praised Maher many times. He often has spoken the politically-incorrect truth about all sorts of things when others have been silent.

But not then.

He (and his guests) for once should have just kept their mouths shut.

***

Here is what was actually said:

Bill Maher: The people who are really getting tough in foreign policy are part of the House Foreign Relations Committee...they voted yesterday to condemn, as an act of genocide, the killings of Armenians, in Turkey, in 1915. Mild Applause. This is exactly why the voters gave control to the Democrats: to send a stirring message to the Ottoman Empire. 

Huge laughter from audience. 

Tucker Carlson: Unbelievable. To sell out to the Armenian lobby. Now, there was a genocide in Armenia... 

Joy Behar: Yeah. 

Tucker Carlson: ...and it was a terrible thing, and I'm sure in a perfect world we would...take time out to condemn this, but we are doing this at the price of offending one of our key allies in the region, Turkey... 

Joy Behar: And wait until the Weimar Republic hears about it. 

More laughter from audience. 

Tucker Carlson: What do we get out of it...what interest of ours is served by making Turkey mad? 

Paul Krugman: (Shrugs good naturedly.) 

Bill Maher: Because there are a lot of Armenians in, apparently California, and they're a lobby. It's the ultimate in special interest lobbying. 

Joy Behar: The Armenians deserve attention, but timing is everything; wait a little while. 

Tucker Carlson: I like the Armenians. 

Bill Maher: We all like the Armenians. 

Tucker Carlson: This is all pointless... 

Bill Maher: WE ALL LIKE THE ARMENIANS! 

Loud laughter and applause from the audience.

The Last American President to Explicitly Recognize the Armenian Genocide was Ronald Reagan

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"President Erdogan, tear down this lie!"

The title (and photograph and caption) of this blog post was intended to spark interest, thought and perhaps healthy controversy.

The claim of the title is true as far as it goes.

But let me say right now that this is not going to be a pro-Reagan, pro-Republican, pro-conservative or even (perish the thought) anti-Obama piece, at least per se.

First, here's the Ronald Reagan statement from 1981. It was actually made in the context of remembering the Holocaust:

Like the genocide of the Armenians before it, and the genocide of the Cambodians which followed it — and like too many other such persecutions of too many other peoples — the lessons of the Holocaust must never be forgotten.

Now, I'm going to make some claims that will muddy the waters and may even offend a few people.

• Every recent American president has explicitly opposed congressional resolutions branding what happened as a "genocide".
• This includes Reagan, notwithstanding the above statement (which again was made almost tangentially in the context of another genocide).
• Frankly, I think Reagan had the best reason for it (if there can be a "best" reason). During the 1970's and 1980's, the cause of recognition was tainted by Armenian terrorist groups--first and foremost, The Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia. This was a hard-left group that trained with the PLO, was against Turkey in part because it was pro-Israel (how things have changed) and killed 46 people in assassinations, bombings, airport shootings and the like. This was in that more innocent era when terrorism was not so much a Muslim phenomenon as it was either the work of a broad front of loosely allied leftists or the last desperate stratagem of "oppressed" nationalities. As always, anti-Semitism was a factor. Reagan argued that explicitly recognizing the genocide would reward Armenian terrorists, who, sincerely or not, put recognition of the genocide at the head of their demands.
• But that was a personal opinion that Reagan merely happened to express once or twice. The quasi-official reason for not mentioning "genocide" was that recognition would offend a vital NATO ally (Cold War)  or offend a crucial ally in the War on Terror (post Cold War). 
• President Barrack Obama may have additional reasons. He seems to favor Muslims over Jews and Christians whenever possible. And thus an historical event that appears to frame Muslims as oppressors and Christians as victims would not be something he would wish to, so to speak, emphasize. He also appears to have a real friendship with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
• But to be fair, on the recognition question itself, there's no formal difference between the position of Obama and the position of George W. Bush, or for that matter, the position of Ronald Reagan.     

What happened was genocide. The man who coined the term "genocide" in 1943 actually said that he was first motivated by contemplating the Armenian case. The Turks tried to eliminate the greater part of the Armenian race. There can be no good excuse for not telling the truth on that. Or for not calling it what it is.

And what good reason is there to kowtow to Turkey? It was a cut-rate NATO ally and now it's a fake ally in the "War on Terror". The only thing the Turks have been successful at is convincing others they're more important than they actually are.

And for one day shy of one-hundred years they have lied about the murder of over a million innocents.*

I can deal with an embargo on doner kabobs, or sludgy coffee or bald, mustachioed circus weightlifters or whatever. But one thing richly deserves to be said:

Take your lie and shove it.

***

*I should say, I'm referring to the post occupation Turkish governments. Many individual Turks have indeed spoken out about the Genocide in circumstances that have often been dangerous, sometimes fatally so. The journalist Hrant Dink was killed for it in 2007. 

Pope Francis Joins the Evil Conspiracy Against Turkey

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"Just because I look a bit like Hitler doesn't mean it's fair for you guys to gang up on me."

So, here at Mahound's Paradise we have a new tradition. We call it Conspiracy Monday. Every Monday we highlight an alleged conspiracy. Sometimes we believe it. More often we don't. Occasionally, we're agnostic. Whichever way we go, it's fun.

In the Muslim world, and now, especially in Turkey, Conspiracy Monday is every day. And they always believe it.

The latest is that Pope Francis has joined an evil conspiracy or "front" against Turkey, for branding the deaths of over a million Armenians in 1915-1923, a "genocide". From the (Turkish) Hurriyet Daily News:

Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu has accused Pope Francis of “joining the conspiracy” of an “evil front” targeting Turkey’s ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP), after the pontiff referred to the killings of Ottoman Armenians in 1915 as “the first genocide of the 20th century.”

The evidence is that Christian Armenians were systematically murdered on a massive scale. Few doubt this, though some have been reluctant to say it due to fear of offending Turkey.

An odd fear, certainly. Turkey is a perpetually second-rate country whose main export is bald and mustachioed circus weightlifters who heft spherical barbells.

Now, Turkey is clearly salivating at the prospect of once again being the seat of the next caliphate.

You go, Turkey.

This sort of thing isn't new. A few months ago, the current President of Turkey suggested that the Charlie Hebdo attacks were some sort of Western false-flag operation.

And it's not just the government. Some polls show that this formerly "secular" country has the most anti-Semitic populace in the Middle East. 70% of its citizens believe that Jews are sending rats to crawl under their bedroom doors and squeak Zionist slogans.

Being the most anti-Semitic country in the Middle East is a big deal. It's like being the most liberal county in Oregon.

That the Pope has bent over backwards to praise Islam and Muslims is of course irrelevant. One lapse and, well, you're one of them!

How many Christians did you kill, Johnny Turkey? But, whatever your answer, can you send over a few more weightlifters, please? You know, to keep the bearded ladies company.